Sunday, May 17, 2009

To Anonymous in Wisconsin

I could have deleted your comment. I didn’t. I could have turned on comment moderation. I haven’t.

This craziness will only continue if people like you insist on stirring up the shit. The more you stir it, the more it stinks.

You have no idea of what has been discussed behind the scenes.

As for “You don't get to sit this one out because you are pregnant and you don't want to upset the baby”

You know what? I do! I am a nearly 46 year old pregnant woman in my first trimester. This is a high risk pregnancy. You have no idea how stressful all of this has been for me, and the physical toll it has taken. My health and this pregnancy are my first priority. Period. To risk this pregnancy would be to disrespect the enormous gift I have been given.


Anonymous said...

Thank you for not deleting my comment, but you have really not responded to it---our friend has still been left to defend herself. This is not a battle she should be fighting alone.
You are correct that I do not have knowledge of “behind the scenes” discussions—neither does anyone else. That is exactly my point. Showing your support for your friend should be as public as all of the damaging statements that have been made. If I had simply wanted to stir up shit, I would not have left a way to contact me. I am here to defend her if you will not.
I’m sure my comments will be blasted as attacking a fragile pregnant lady. So be it. I have unfortunately been unable to conceive as of yet, so I guess I am a wide open target. Bring it.

And, by the way, I am not same “Anonymous” who added my comment to Mel’s site.

AnotherDreamer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AnotherDreamer said...

Angrycaryn can speak for herself Anonymous.

As I told Angrycaryn, you can not reason with unreasonable people. What use will it do for us, her friends, to stir the pot more?

Dora talks with Angrycaryn... what is said between them is between them. You don't know, maybe Angrycaryn doesn't want her to say anything, or to be caught in the stressful situation. Maybe Dora is showing her support in other ways.

If you have a problem with Dora and her blog, I have a simple solution for you... Stop reading.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous: if you were a faithful reader of Dora's blog you would know that she has posted over and over again how grateful she is to Angrycanrn, how she considers her family, how thankful she is for this gift.

As a reader of Angrycanrn's former blog, I will miss her. I'm sorry she feels her only recourse is to leave the community and I know that Mel encouraged her to stay.

The situation between Angrycanrn and Max and Vee was unfortunate - hurtful things were said. Dora did what others (like Helen) should have done - she stayed out of it. Shame on Dora? Shame on you for doing what Angrycanrn was upset about in the first place - saying cruel and hurtful things.

AnotherDreamer said...

Dora, sorry about Anonymous's comments.

Anonymous said...

Another Dreamer~
That’s your response to me? “Go away”? Nice.
You are right---there is a lot I don’t know. I mentioned that in my original comment.
As I have said to Dora, I’m sure she supports Angrycanrn privately, but what have any of her friends said publicly? Maybe you said things on her blog, and for that I am sure she is thankful. But now that she has felt forced to retreat and delete all of those words, shouldn’t there be a place where those who are missing her get to speak well of her? As you know, there is so much more to her than this unfortunate “incident” and I will not keep quiet while these things are left unsaid.
I do not have a problem with Dora—but I do have a problem with the way my friend was treated by a lot of people.

I have no doubt that Dora does not take AC's gift lightly. I know that they have a very close bond. That is not what I said. What I am trying to get across is that the last word on all of this should come from people that care about her as strongly as we do, not all of the hurtful crap that was thrown at her.

Dora said...

Anonymous in Wisconsin, re:
"shouldn’t there be a place where those who are missing her get to speak well of her? As you know, there is so much more to her than this unfortunate “incident” and I will not keep quiet while these things are left unsaid."

Then start your own damn blog.

Dora said...

As regular readers of Angrycanrn's blog are aware, she received numerous comments (including from me) telling her they wished she wouldn't stop blogging. That her voice would be missed. No one "forced" her to stop blogging. It was her choice. If she chose to start again, there are many of us who would be glad to have her around.

Right now she has much to deal with in her life. If backing away from the current conflict in the blogosphere makes her life more peaceful, so be it.

Many of us will be happy to welcome her back if she chooses to write again.

AnotherDreamer said...

I'm with Dora.
Start your own blog if that is how you feel. Someone else's blog is not the place for that.

Have you even discussed your accusations about Angrycaryn's friends with Angrycaryn herself? Or are you on the loose, doing this in on your own?

Why are you so insistent on keeping the issue alive? Doing so only opens more people up to hurt. I'll admit, I have questions about your true motives here. Attacking the people that support her seems like you're doing the opposite of being helpful to her...

ex-angrycanrn said...

Whoa there folks!

Anonymous from WI is an IRL friend and fellow IF'er. She doesn't blog, but she should as she writes very beautifully.

Thank you for attacking the one person who really went out on a limb to take my side. No one else really did in such a public way. Sure, I got a few comments about "just stick it out and it will blow over" etc. One very brave person emailed me and expressed 100% support for me. I did advise An Unwanted Path to take down a post that involved me in the periphery (I think. The preceding post and offending comments were deleted and I was certain that I would be blamed for that too). Most of the minimal support I have received have been behind the scenes. To an outsider looking in, it is pretty obvious that I was ganged up on and NO ONE bothered to come to my defense.

That is what friends are for. And that is what my IRL friend tried to do tonight. I don't believe she was trying to stir anything up. She was trying to galvanize people whom I had indicated to her were "friends" to act as such. She knows how much this community means to me and how painful it was to walk away. She has helped me in so many ways that an anonymous blogger can not and it seems would not.
To whomever wrote that I would be welcomed back with open arms, you need to put down the crack pipe. The comments that you see on blogs are not even a tenth of what I get via email. Death threats, descriptions of what they would do to my children. I'm not welcome to come back. Certain people have made that abundantly clear. One with a lengthly blog tirade and the other with complete silence. Leaders of the community? Some leadership.

I have to wonder if there isn't something not quite on the up and up with the UTERUS fundraiser? Because really, should a simple question have brought about this sort of a response?
To my "friends" in the blogland Edmund Burke once said so eloquently, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

I am anything but fragile and will fight my own battles but it is nice to know that I have at least one person who cares enough about me to put an unpopular opinion out there.

Thank you N.H. From the bottom of my heart. Adversity shows you who your true friends are.

Anonymous said...

Anytime, My Dear. Anytime. As you know, every word was from the heart. I'm glad you were reading.

Peace and love always,

Dora said...

I'm sincerely sorry you were hurt by my silence. But this: "The comments that you see on blogs are not even a tenth of what I get via email. Death threats, descriptions of what they would do to my children.", which you have told me about before, are a good part of why I have not made a public statement.

I also stand by my belief that continuing to rehash this makes it worse.

Frankly, it really sucks that I feel that no matter what I say or don't say, I'm now the bad guy. Doesn't make me feel much like continuing my blog either. said...

Shitz....its like the whole hell got loose on the IF blogosphere while I was away!

This is so pathetically sad.....Can somebody not demand accountability for their contribution? Angrycanrn was hankered with death threats over wanting to know about her contribution to the funding?

I think the whole angry conversation part is over...but it is sad that angrycanrn had to leave the blogosphere like this....

ex angrycanrn said...

Dora, you aren't the bad guy. You didn't question where your UTERUS donation went. You simply chose to believe that silence was the best solution to this problem.

Was it? Hell if I know. It didn't stop much of the anger and vitriol being spewed in my direction. We have had this conversation, no need to rehash it. But would defending me have just made the haters more hateful? Again, I have no idea.

There is no solution to this. My blog is gone and for all intents and purposes I will be too. I wish that I could walk away and think that I had done some good here but what little good I have done is way overshadowed by this non sensical controversy.

Fuck it. I'm tired of trying to convince people I'm not evil. Fine I'm evil. I gave thousands of dollars to UTERUS to launder it for my drug business. Those embryos were stolen and sold on the black market. I didn't pay anything for the transport of the embryos from MI, the guy and I took it out in *trade* wink wink.
If you had bothered to read my blog prior to this fiasco you would know that all of the above scenarios are possible.

Rest easy folks, I am just as big a bitch as my accusers make me out to be. Only, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Dora said...

Just because we disagree about the best way to make this end does not mean I don't support you or that I in any way condone the vile threats you have received. You say you don't know if my silence was the best solution, or if defending you would have made it worse. I don't know either. I made the decision I thought best with absolutely no malice. Was I right? Damned if I know either.

We are all flawed. We do our best. Sometimes we fuck up.

As I've said, I'm sincerely sorry I've hurt you. But right now I feel like I'm sitting in the middle of a minefield. Afraid to take a step in any direction for fear of an explosion.

AnotherDreamer said...

I give up.

I can't do anything right in this matter. I am sorry for everything I have done, or tried to do.

I'm sorry.

Kristin said...

Grrrrrr...judgmental asshats like that Anonymous really PISS ME OFF! said...

This is so ugly. I can't believe this is really happening....but it is and very much so.

I am so sorry Dora. I am so sorry Angrycanrn. If I were present then Angrycanrn, I would have rallied with you....but I don't like this huge tension between you and guys have such a huge precious connection.

Dear Dora, you have all the right in the world to save up your emotional energy. You are so entitled to.

Angrycanrn, I wish there was something I could do to change all this. This has gotten way too sensitive, way too overwhelming.

I am sorry.

ex ANGRYcarn said...

Hey Kristen. That "jugemental asshat" IS my friend. She was trying to behave as a friend by standing up for me. I'm sorry if that offends you.

MFA Mama said...

Dora: I have lurked on your blog on and off for months (I think I found you via CycleSista) and clicked over when I saw today's LFCA to see what the uproar was about. I think staying out of the current controversy was the best choice for YOUR mental health and for the preservation of your ongoing pregnancy (which as you pointed out is quite high-risk, and no stress won't make you POOF! lose the baby but it's not good to get your heart-rate up too high with adrenaline and stress certainly doesn't HELP anything). I'm deliberately not even going to state my position on the UTERUS/AngrycanRN/Anon in WI situation because I don't want parties from either side discounting my support for YOU based on that. It has nothing to do with me. I don't have a dog in that fight. I don't think AngrycanRN's donation of embryos to you obliges you to get involved in a blogosphere pissing contest, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with her part in it. The ways we show our support to friends in OR outside of the computer BEHIND THE SCENES is far more important than any public showboating, and I have no idea what your interaction with Angry has been in private, but I don't think you are/were obligated to take a stance publicly on this and I'm very sorry that people are polluting your comments with the back-and-forth on something that has NOTHING to do with you. I hope that you are able to return to blogging, or if you feel that walking away is healthiest, that you do that and feel some measure of peace as a result (I do hope you'll update us through the LFCA on pregnancy news though, because a lot of us just come here to check on YOU and would still care and want to hear how you are). Be well.

Navigating The Rapids said...

We are not children. When you take a stand, sometimes you have to stand alone. I think that what Dora and Angrycaryn share should not be ruined by some miserable people in the blogosphere. As for discounting stress in a pregnancy, well my ass landed in hospital because of it so yeah it's best not to stress yourself out. Anonymous if you really wanted to help wouldn't it have made more sense to privately contacted her and the three of you hash this out?

Aurelia said...

I'm so so sorry that I missed all of this. I've been reading you for months Dora, and I can't believe that all this happened to all of you.

I'm so sorry, and trust me, I get it when you don't know what to do, and what to say.